THE ROUNDUP

Nation World HQ
September 05 2014 08:05AM



Sean Monahan a cautionary tale for Leon Draisaitl, advanced stats for dummies, player profiles, prospect depth charts and more in this week's Roundup

In the Roundup we go around the Nation Network and give you some of the best articles of the last couple weeks. Every once in a while it's good to know what other teams are doing, or maybe you find an interesting article you wouldn't have found otherwise.

Cheating


Hockey analytics too confusing? This cheat sheet is the easiest they will ever be explained



VancouverCanucks1

Prospect profile: Jared McCann

Prospect profile: Brendan Gaunce



CalgaryFlames2

Reasonable expectations: Johnny Gaudreau


Reasonable expectations: Sven Baertschi


An outsiders inside view of the NHL stats revolution part 1


An outsiders inside view of the NHL stats revolution Part 2



EdmontonOilers2


Sean Monahan: More cautionary tale than guiding light for Leon Draisatl




Winnipeg Jets


Jets organizational sketch: blue chips and top prospects.


Player profile: Jacob Trouba



TorontoMapleLeafs


Steve Dangle podcast with James Mirtle



DFO1

For every teams potential line combinations in 2014 - 2015, head over to Dailyfaceoff.com



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We are the people that keep this whole circus running. We get no love but get to see Wanye freak out about stuff in person which is kind of a trade off.
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#1 Baalzamon
September 05 2014, 08:22AM
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Why does Daily Faceoff think the Flames will put Denis Wideman and Deryk Engelland--their only two right-handed defensemen--on the same pair?

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#2 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
September 05 2014, 08:40AM
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RNH/Leon vs Bennett/Monahan. Should be some good center battles this year.

Last year some Flames fans were chirping the Oil, comparing Monahan to Hall, saying they'd rather have Sean than Taylor. To that, my response hasn't changed: LOL.

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#3 Privateeye
September 05 2014, 08:46AM
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Jordan Nugent-Hallkins wrote:

RNH/Leon vs Bennett/Monahan. Should be some good center battles this year.

Last year some Flames fans were chirping the Oil, comparing Monahan to Hall, saying they'd rather have Sean than Taylor. To that, my response hasn't changed: LOL.

I don't remember a flames fan ever saying that. Sean is nowhere close to Taylor's caliber. I think/hope they know that.

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#4 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
September 05 2014, 08:49AM
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@Privateeye

I think it was when they stomped us like 8-2. Emotions were running hot that night.

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#5 Konniek
September 05 2014, 09:07AM
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@Privateeye

Well, Monahan is still only 19. He only has one season under his books. He is on the path to becoming elite. Plus Hall and Monahan play a much different type of game. I think Monahan will be able to pick up points and a lot of them in a few years. They both are on the path to becoming truly elite players

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#6 Konniek
September 05 2014, 09:07AM
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@Privateeye

Well, Monahan is still only 19. He only has one season under his books. He is on the path to becoming elite. Plus Hall and Monahan play a much different type of game. I think Monahan will be able to pick up points and a lot of them in a few years. They both are on the path to becoming truly elite players

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#7 Mike Krushelnyski
September 05 2014, 09:18AM
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I asked Sean Monahan if he would ever be as good as Taylor Hall and he said that he wouldn't.

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#8 Jordan Nugent-Hallkins
September 05 2014, 09:21AM
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@Mike Krushelnyski

And I asked the Pope if he would give me his hat, he said that he wouldn't.

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#9 Mr. Common Sense
September 05 2014, 09:23AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

Why does Daily Faceoff think the Flames will put Denis Wideman and Deryk Engelland--their only two right-handed defensemen--on the same pair?

....for the same reason that if Leon scores 22 goals this upcoming year, he will be deemed a failure like Monahan. what a load of crap.

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#10 Burnward
September 05 2014, 09:33AM
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@Mr. Common Sense

That was an incredibly strange article. I think Willis spent a weekend with Lambert or something.

And I think the debate was RNH or Monahan, if there was a debate at all.

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#11 redhot1
September 05 2014, 09:46AM
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Jordan Nugent-Hallkins wrote:

RNH/Leon vs Bennett/Monahan. Should be some good center battles this year.

Last year some Flames fans were chirping the Oil, comparing Monahan to Hall, saying they'd rather have Sean than Taylor. To that, my response hasn't changed: LOL.

Taylor Hall : Top 2 LW in the NHL

Sean Monahan: 19 year old with 2A potential

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#12 Privateeye
September 05 2014, 10:28AM
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Konniek wrote:

Well, Monahan is still only 19. He only has one season under his books. He is on the path to becoming elite. Plus Hall and Monahan play a much different type of game. I think Monahan will be able to pick up points and a lot of them in a few years. They both are on the path to becoming truly elite players

Hall is already elite. He has things he has to work on like every other player. But IMO, he's already in the top dog category.

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#13 Privateeye
September 05 2014, 10:29AM
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Mike Krushelnyski wrote:

I asked Sean Monahan if he would ever be as good as Taylor Hall and he said that he wouldn't.

Haha, boring Sean Monahan!!!

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#14 VK63
September 05 2014, 10:36AM
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Molly Hatchet!

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#15 The Last Big Bear
September 05 2014, 10:38AM
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How many Maple Leafs does it take to change a tire? I don't know, but your team sucks big time, and the last time they won the cup it was still a crime in America for blacks and whites to marry.

This is the weekly Roundup, which by ancient tradition is when I yell at people about hockey things. By popular demand (ie a thanks/trash poll) this week's victims are the TML.

I could just start and finish with Randy Carlyle. He who decided that apparently Tyler Bozak is a #1C. That Mikhail "consistent-50-point-pace-against-top-competition-with-league-leading-advanced-stats" Grabovski is barely a roster player. He whose system sees the Leafs' goalies get absolutely shelled every night, and anything less than a .924 from your starter means disaster.

Apologists can play the card of "Its easy to criticize from outside, but he's the one in the locker room". And that's right. He is both in the locker room, and very easy to criticize. More importantly, he's been asked to stay there for 2 more years, and oh man, for Leafs haters *that* is more delicious than any verbal retort.

I don't want to make it sound like Carlyle is the only thing wrong with the Leafs. I mean, we could discuss their prices, or the knobs who end up paying those extortionate prices to sit on their blackberries ignoring the team sucking in front of them, or the Toronto Sports Network shoving that contemptible team's latest misfortune down the throats of the rest of the country... There's a lot of material here. I mean, I wanted to cover their buyouts (and they have some DOOZIES), their terrible contract signings (David Clarkson says "BOY HOWDY"), their shockingly poor results on the ice (1 division title in *75* years! ONE!), but I'm at work, and it would take HOURS to do any justice to the amount of suck the Leafs are dragging behind them under the guise of "history".

And for better or worse, Carlyle is the face of the franchise right now. The club obviously agrees, because they have gone all-in behind him. They've extended his contract. They've made roster moves based on his preferences. He is their man. And you couldn't have a better match.

When Nonis announced Carlyle's extension, he said

"Whether optics are that it's the wrong thing to do or not doesn't matter to us."

Doing things which look stupid, and are expected by everyone else to end poorly because they probably will? Thats like the Leaf's theme song. And he may not have written it, but that's a tune that Caryle can DEFINITELY riff along to.

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#16 RexHolez
September 05 2014, 10:42AM
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My interest is on wether the flames play Bennet this year or give him another year. We all know Leon's in simply cuz they have no other choice. I hope Bennet plays simply so I can say "I told you we should have taken Bennet"

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#17 Burnward
September 05 2014, 10:51AM
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@RexHolez

You're right. You should have. Thanks again!!!

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#18 The Last Big Bear
September 05 2014, 10:54AM
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RexHolez wrote:

My interest is on wether the flames play Bennet this year or give him another year. We all know Leon's in simply cuz they have no other choice. I hope Bennet plays simply so I can say "I told you we should have taken Bennet"

Based on what little I saw of Bennett in the development camp, I think he is a very long shot to make the team this year.

I'll reserve final judgement until after the Penticton tournament, but I strongly doubt he'll be a regular this year.

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#19 Baalzamon
September 05 2014, 10:57AM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

Based on what little I saw of Bennett in the development camp, I think he is a very long shot to make the team this year.

I'll reserve final judgement until after the Penticton tournament, but I strongly doubt he'll be a regular this year.

You might as well hold off until training camp is finished. Penticton won't tell us much.

Remember how good John Ramage looked last year?

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#20 The Soup Fascist
September 05 2014, 11:11AM
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The Last Big Bear wrote:

How many Maple Leafs does it take to change a tire? I don't know, but your team sucks big time, and the last time they won the cup it was still a crime in America for blacks and whites to marry.

This is the weekly Roundup, which by ancient tradition is when I yell at people about hockey things. By popular demand (ie a thanks/trash poll) this week's victims are the TML.

I could just start and finish with Randy Carlyle. He who decided that apparently Tyler Bozak is a #1C. That Mikhail "consistent-50-point-pace-against-top-competition-with-league-leading-advanced-stats" Grabovski is barely a roster player. He whose system sees the Leafs' goalies get absolutely shelled every night, and anything less than a .924 from your starter means disaster.

Apologists can play the card of "Its easy to criticize from outside, but he's the one in the locker room". And that's right. He is both in the locker room, and very easy to criticize. More importantly, he's been asked to stay there for 2 more years, and oh man, for Leafs haters *that* is more delicious than any verbal retort.

I don't want to make it sound like Carlyle is the only thing wrong with the Leafs. I mean, we could discuss their prices, or the knobs who end up paying those extortionate prices to sit on their blackberries ignoring the team sucking in front of them, or the Toronto Sports Network shoving that contemptible team's latest misfortune down the throats of the rest of the country... There's a lot of material here. I mean, I wanted to cover their buyouts (and they have some DOOZIES), their terrible contract signings (David Clarkson says "BOY HOWDY"), their shockingly poor results on the ice (1 division title in *75* years! ONE!), but I'm at work, and it would take HOURS to do any justice to the amount of suck the Leafs are dragging behind them under the guise of "history".

And for better or worse, Carlyle is the face of the franchise right now. The club obviously agrees, because they have gone all-in behind him. They've extended his contract. They've made roster moves based on his preferences. He is their man. And you couldn't have a better match.

When Nonis announced Carlyle's extension, he said

"Whether optics are that it's the wrong thing to do or not doesn't matter to us."

Doing things which look stupid, and are expected by everyone else to end poorly because they probably will? Thats like the Leaf's theme song. And he may not have written it, but that's a tune that Caryle can DEFINITELY riff along to.

Ahhh. There are two things that Calgary Flames' fans and Edmonton Oilers' fans can always agree on.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

and

Vancouver Canuck fans are a delusional and fickle bunch, who cannot see that their team's window for their first cup after 43 years of futility and counting, slammed shut three years ago.

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#21 Burnward
September 05 2014, 11:14AM
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Oh.

Rrrrrrround up.

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#22 trueoilfan
September 05 2014, 11:21AM
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Cheering for the flames and oilers is like cheering for two knocked out boxers to get up.

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#23 Silo
September 05 2014, 11:47AM
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trueoilfan wrote:

Cheering for the flames and oilers is like cheering for two knocked out boxers to get up.

Lol I think it's more like cheering for a three legged horse to win the Kentucky derby

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#24 Steve Largent
September 05 2014, 11:59AM
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I was geeked about hockey until the NFL started. I'm a lifelong Seahawks fan and still on cloud 9. FINALLY a championship has come to the Pacific Northwest. The major league teams really struggle out here.

The Canucks got close but are starting the rebuild. I guess it's not a true rebuild but close enough. The change is exciting but we all know there is ZERO chance of a Cup coming here anytime soon (or in my lifetime).

Sadly, I don't think any Canadian team will win under Gary Buttplug's rule. The commish will try and make the owners as much $ as possible while at the same time not giving a damn about the on-ice product or the fans. If he does expand the league by 4 then you know I'm right.

Honestly, I'd love to see teams in Seattle and another one in Toronto. I'd prefer to see two more added to the Toronto area just because they will thrive (and hopefully suck like the Leafs). These should not be expansion teams but teams moving...moving away from Florida and Phoenix...and maybe out of Brooklyn.

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#25 Czar
September 05 2014, 12:35PM
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Johnny Gaudreau is set to turn pro. The tiny winger (5’7’’ and 150 pounds)

My dog weighs more than him, what could possibly go wrong?

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#26 redhot1
September 05 2014, 12:46PM
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Czar wrote:

Johnny Gaudreau is set to turn pro. The tiny winger (5’7’’ and 150 pounds)

My dog weighs more than him, what could possibly go wrong?

RNH is set enter his third year. The slight centre (6"00 and 170 pounds) My dog weighs 20 pounds less then him, what could possibly go wrong?

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#27 The Last Big Bear
September 05 2014, 12:49PM
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Baalzamon wrote:

You might as well hold off until training camp is finished. Penticton won't tell us much.

Remember how good John Ramage looked last year?

No dice.

I am WAAY too excited about the YoungStars tournament to not jump to wild and unjustifiable conclusions based on its results.

And no, I don't really remember being that excited about Ramage last year. As far as defencemen go, I spent most of the tournament in utter shock that the coke machine enforcer type that the Flames had just drafted (Keegan Kanzig) showed up and established himself as one of the best defencemen at the event.

Seriously, right now, I'd MUCH rather watch the prospect teams play than watch the NHL versions of the Oilers, Canucks, and Flames.

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#28 Czar
September 05 2014, 01:19PM
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@redhot1

Nuge is 6'1" and 30 pounds heavier at the same age, not huge by any means unless he's standing next to tiny.

Maybe you should feed your dog more.

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#29 mr common sense
September 05 2014, 02:17PM
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Burnward wrote:

That was an incredibly strange article. I think Willis spent a weekend with Lambert or something.

And I think the debate was RNH or Monahan, if there was a debate at all.

totally. Willis lost his mind. took me a day to write about I was so bothered by the logic

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#30 redhot1
September 05 2014, 02:31PM
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Czar wrote:

Nuge is 6'1" and 30 pounds heavier at the same age, not huge by any means unless he's standing next to tiny.

Maybe you should feed your dog more.

Probably not the best comparison. Take out Gaudreau and insert Mark Arcobello

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#31 Czar
September 05 2014, 03:06PM
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@redhot1

Are you sure you didn't mean Omark?

A buck fifty dude! The kids a buck fifty.

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#32 ubermiguel
September 05 2014, 03:21PM
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redhot1 wrote:

RNH is set enter his third year. The slight centre (6"00 and 170 pounds) My dog weighs 20 pounds less then him, what could possibly go wrong?

4th year and closer to 6'1", 180 lbs.

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#33 redhot1
September 05 2014, 03:24PM
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@Czar

Didn't stop him from ripping up a league better then the CHL.

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#34 Czar
September 05 2014, 03:51PM
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redhot1 wrote:

Didn't stop him from ripping up a league better then the CHL.

Which is guaranteed success in the NHL, especially at 150lbs.

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#35 redhot1
September 05 2014, 04:06PM
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Czar wrote:

Which is guaranteed success in the NHL, especially at 150lbs.

No point arguing anymore, I think he will succeed, you think he won't. Agree to disagree

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#36 The Soup Fascist
September 05 2014, 04:12PM
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~ Have to agree with the Calgary fans here.

Johnny Hockey has played in 1 NHL game and has 1 goal.

So extrapolating over an 82 games season ... my God ... this guy is better than Stamkos! ~

Sorry Flames fans. Martin St. Louis types come around once in a blue moon and you sent yours a packin' after 4 career goals. Shrewd.

As small as St. Louis is, he still craps bigger than Gaudreau. Nothing to see here.

Edit: A good comparable to Gaudreau is another BC alum, Nathan Gerbe. A diminutive forward who also "ripped it up" in the exact same league. Best career year in the NHL, so far - 31 points.

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#37 The Soup Fascist
September 05 2014, 04:23PM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

Ahhh. There are two things that Calgary Flames' fans and Edmonton Oilers' fans can always agree on.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

and

Vancouver Canuck fans are a delusional and fickle bunch, who cannot see that their team's window for their first cup after 43 years of futility and counting, slammed shut three years ago.

I did not post this, and please stop!!

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#38 redhot1
September 05 2014, 04:25PM
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Silo wrote:

Lol I think it's more like cheering for a three legged horse to win the Kentucky derby

Stupid post.

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#39 redhot1
September 05 2014, 05:17PM
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redhot1 wrote:

Stupid post.

Thats pretty rude, other redhot1

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#40 madjam
September 05 2014, 07:00PM
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Winnipeg Jets named their rookie lineup for Penticton today and it looks pretty good . Jets are a dark horse in West , but might be the best of Canadian clubs going forward . At a goal differential of -10 last season was next closest to Dallas who made the playoffs , and they look to be better this year . Have a feeling Jets will finish higher up than Vancouver .

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#41 Baalzamon
September 05 2014, 10:49PM
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@The Soup Fascist

You say "nothing to see here" and then bring up Gerbe. That's hilarious, because Gerbe a) isn't as talented as Gaudreau b) is smaller and c) is a full time NHL player

I always laugh when people bring up Gerbe to put down Gaudreau.

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#42 The Soup Fascist
September 06 2014, 08:02AM
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Baalzamon wrote:

You say "nothing to see here" and then bring up Gerbe. That's hilarious, because Gerbe a) isn't as talented as Gaudreau b) is smaller and c) is a full time NHL player

I always laugh when people bring up Gerbe to put down Gaudreau.

Not sure how you quantify "not as talented". Gerbe was a crazy good NCAA hockey player who put up big numbers at the same school in the same conference.

I am unsure how you don't see him as a comparable. Other than he is a little bigger than Johnny Hockey. He is a fringe NHLer. I am puzzled why everyone assumes Johnny Hockey is going to light up the NHL based on being an excellent but very diminutive collegiate athlete.

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#43 Baalzamon
September 07 2014, 10:33AM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

Not sure how you quantify "not as talented". Gerbe was a crazy good NCAA hockey player who put up big numbers at the same school in the same conference.

I am unsure how you don't see him as a comparable. Other than he is a little bigger than Johnny Hockey. He is a fringe NHLer. I am puzzled why everyone assumes Johnny Hockey is going to light up the NHL based on being an excellent but very diminutive collegiate athlete.

After reading your comment, I realize I was a bit too harsh, my apologies.

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#44 Kevin M
September 08 2014, 12:40AM
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Konniek wrote:

Well, Monahan is still only 19. He only has one season under his books. He is on the path to becoming elite. Plus Hall and Monahan play a much different type of game. I think Monahan will be able to pick up points and a lot of them in a few years. They both are on the path to becoming truly elite players

They will never become elite players in Edmonton or Calgary for several reasons. First, if you are not in Toronto or Montreal, the media in Canada will never consider you elite, look at their treatment of the Sedins. Second, if you are in Calgary or Edmonton half the league has no clue where you are. Third, as long as Burke is running things in Calgary and Lowe is running things in Edmonton, these teams have no hope for a real breakthrough and if there is no breakthrough (I guess right now making the playoffs would be a breakthrough)then they will never be elite players. Fourth, Hall has had time to demonstrate elite skills, so far he would be judged as good to very good, Monahan is too young to talk about anything but potential. My advice to either of them is get to a major market in the US or Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver as soon as you can.

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#45 Jets Man
September 08 2014, 06:26AM
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madjam wrote:

Winnipeg Jets named their rookie lineup for Penticton today and it looks pretty good . Jets are a dark horse in West , but might be the best of Canadian clubs going forward . At a goal differential of -10 last season was next closest to Dallas who made the playoffs , and they look to be better this year . Have a feeling Jets will finish higher up than Vancouver .

The Jets are no dark horse, sorry but that's delusional. We have the most atrocious starting goalie (ever?) and a backup whose played 3 games (hope he gets 10 in this year). Our core is decent and is getting better and younger but that’s hard to do when you have plugs like Stuart and Thorburn (really?!!?!?!?!) signed for 3 more years, preventing our youth from trying out for the show. Sorry, we're at least another year (and a goalie and that's still very optimistic) from being competitive in the hardest division in the NHL.

That said, Vancouver, Edmonton and the Flames will all have an easier time than the Jets and they all have better goaltending too. All three will finish higher than the Jets (ok, maybe not the Flames and they'd be smart not to). The Jets NEED Connor McDavid and there's no rush to be competitive, we're one of the youngest teams in league.

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#46 piscera.infada
September 08 2014, 08:45AM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

Not sure how you quantify "not as talented". Gerbe was a crazy good NCAA hockey player who put up big numbers at the same school in the same conference.

I am unsure how you don't see him as a comparable. Other than he is a little bigger than Johnny Hockey. He is a fringe NHLer. I am puzzled why everyone assumes Johnny Hockey is going to light up the NHL based on being an excellent but very diminutive collegiate athlete.

Late to the party. I should preface this comment by saying I don't outright drink the Gaudreau Kool-aid. I hope he works out. I'm still sceptical, but I think it's foolish to write him off simply because, size (and... Gerbe).

Gerbe's Junior stats: Freshman: 18 pts - 39 games; Sophmore: 47 pts - 42 games; Junior: 68 pts - 43 games; WJC (he played in two): 6 pts - 14 games.

Gaudreau's Junior stats: Freshman: 44 pts - 44 games (12 in 8 playoff games); Sophmore: 51 pts - 35 games (5 in 4 playoff games); Junior: 80 pts - 40 games (16 in 6 playoff games); WJC (played in one): 9 pts - 7 games.

In short, in their NCAA careers, Gerbe had a ppg rate of 1.07ppg in 124 career games. Gaudreau had 1.52ppg in 137 career games (including playoffs). That is a non-trivial difference of 0.45 points per game.

If I have a small prospect, I would rather he puts up points in the NCAA surrounded by bigger and older players, than the CHL. Just me though. Again, it's going to be a struggle for Gaudreau to consistently translate his game to the NHL. However, while Gerbe is a comparable, I wouldn't say he's the best comparable.

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#47 piscera.infada
September 08 2014, 08:45AM
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The Soup Fascist wrote:

Not sure how you quantify "not as talented". Gerbe was a crazy good NCAA hockey player who put up big numbers at the same school in the same conference.

I am unsure how you don't see him as a comparable. Other than he is a little bigger than Johnny Hockey. He is a fringe NHLer. I am puzzled why everyone assumes Johnny Hockey is going to light up the NHL based on being an excellent but very diminutive collegiate athlete.

Oops! Double post.

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